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HMS Warspite - 15in guns

HMS Warspite - 15in guns

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Warspite, From Jutland to Cold War Warrior, Iain Ballantyne. A history of the super-dreadnaught HMS Warspite, a warship that played a major part in both World Wars, fighting at the battles of Jutland and of Cape Matapan. An interesting story, well supported by a large number of quotes from sailors who served on the Warspite. Also includes brief histories of the other seven warships to carry the same name. [read full review]

HMS Warspite at Pearl Harbor

So I just read a brief history of the HMS Warspite. It turned out that from August of 1941 to December of 1941, she at the Bremerton Naval Yard in Washington State, USA, having an extensive refit. She was there on Dec 7th. After the refit, she departed for Ceylon to join the RN fleet there.

So . POD - the refit goes a bit faster. On Dec 1, the Warspite departs the West Coast and sails for Hawaii. It is thought a few days there might bolster Anglo-American naval cooperation, or something, and Warspite's crew would certainly enjoy some time in Honolulu.

So, on Dec 7th, the IJN shows up as in OTL, and finds battleship row - plus HMS Warspite in Pearl Harbor.


HMS Warspite

The Kiat


Fearless Leader

Given the HMS Warspite had just been rebuilt, her AA armament might be quite effective. The IJN takes heavier losses perhaps?

Also given the situation of the war, perhaps the Warspite joins US forces trying to relieve Wake Island?

Other than that I don't know if it would make that much of a difference?


Fearless Leader

Another interesting knock on effect could be that the Warspite's presence adds to the conspiracy theory that Churchill knew about PH and deliberately placed the Warspite in PH to further the Anglo-American special relationship

Final thought: Perhaps the captain of the HMS Warspite raises the possibility of using destroyers to transport supplies to the beleaguered garrison at Wake Island? IIRC the US had a bunch of Clemson class destroyers sitting around in Pearl Harbour that would fit the bill perfectly. Without the need to bring along the slower cargo ships, perhaps the US force can reach Wake before the Japanese forces arrive on the 23rd? Perhaps this gives them enough to resist the Japanese attack? Here again, the Warspite's new AA battery might come in handy. December 1941 could go down as one of her most famous months!

Following that however, I doubt she'll be operating with the USN long term, Most likely she makes the transit through the Panama Canal in early 1942 and joins up with the RN Eastern Fleet like OTL, only with a few more battle stars to her name. Probably a US ship named after her too.

Zheng He

Here is a WI for that time period that I like (and I did it in a wargame once). Instead of the Royal Navy forming an Eastern Fleet like they did in the OTL, they instead send the battleship and carriers they sent to the Indian Ocean to Pearl Harbor. The RN battlewagons and the US transfers from the Atlantic (the New Mexico class ships) plus the Colorado for a battleline of nine ships while the carriers combine to form a carrier force of six large and one small carrier.

Probably not realistic for a variety of reasons but that is a force to be reckoned with.

HMS Warspite

Here is a WI for that time period that I like (and I did it in a wargame once). Instead of the Royal Navy forming an Eastern Fleet like they did in the OTL, they instead send the battleship and carriers they sent to the Indian Ocean to Pearl Harbor. The RN battlewagons and the US transfers from the Atlantic (the New Mexico class ships) plus the Colorado for a battleline of nine ships while the carriers combine to form a carrier force of six large and one small carrier.

Probably not realistic for a variety of reasons but that is a force to be reckoned with.

This might be simmilar as putting a bomb under the Allies, as the USSR would certainly make a serious protest as such a response would mean ending the supplies to Murmansk. The Royal Navy Carriers were needed in the Arctic as well, as well as the modern BB's to counter the German naval build up there. It might involve a severe divission between the USSR and the west, possibly resulting in a war in a war, or at least one directly after the Alles had beaten the Axis Powers.

Zheng He


The US already tried to resupply Wake OTl.

Carl Schwamberger

Kimmels relief suggested to Pye & Fletcher the aggresive aspects of Kimmels published war plan were no longer applicable. Also it strongly suggested the loss of any more major fleet units would not be tolerated. So, their reticence in grappling with the Japanese fits the circumstances.

The article attached stated at one point how the three USN carriers were close enough the Saratogas strike could have been "supported". In theory yes, but the USN only understood the idea of a multi carrier task force in theory, with little actual experience or training. Further the carriers were some distance apart. Given the experience level the scattered nature of the US task forces would have been a problem. A third item not at all addressed in the article, or any other literature I've seen on the Wake relief is if the japanese fleet was aware of any of the US task forces. While the Japanese had poor sucess at breaking U codes & encryption there were very skilled at signal analysis. In most of the naval battles of 1942 the Japanese fleet commanders were aware of how many enemy Tf they were dealing with and the likely direction and distance. It would be usefull to know if the Japanese commander of the carrier force attacking Wake had information on the US carriers that week.

Assuming the Saratoga does get in a killing blow, that saves Wake a second time & enables the planned evacuation, then what will be the IJN reaction?

Carl Schwamberger

So I just read a brief history of the HMS Warspite. It turned out that from August of 1941 to December of 1941, she at the Bremerton Naval Yard in Washington State, USA, having an extensive refit. She was there on Dec 7th. After the refit, she departed for Ceylon to join the RN fleet there. .

So, on Dec 7th, the IJN shows up as in OTL, and finds battleship row - plus HMS Warspite in Pearl Harbor.

How about the Warspite approached PH a bit from the north? Around 01:00 she accquires a radar contact clearly indicating multiple ships on the horizon to the south. A radio inquiry via the British liasion at PH is intercepted by the signal intel detachment aboard the Japanese strike force. Several destroyers of the strike force turn in the direction of the radio signals to investigate and at 01:50 make visual contact with the unknown ships?


WARNING: Timeline Idea Forming

Thinking of Dunois' brilliant Anglo-French Union TL here, perhaps as France is falling the nations are merged, and then French Navy bails out of Toulon and makes a run for it to Alexandria or even Britain itself and makes it with only a handful of losses. The addition of what was IOTL lost at Toulon, Dakar and Mars-el-Kebir would give the RN a LOT of extra firepower and allow it to send out more to reinforce its positions. That done, sending Warspite to visit Pearl Harbor after its rebuild at Bremerton while on its way to Singapore would make some sense.

The Japanese are as such answered first by Warspite's AA guns, who taken down a number of the Japanese aircraft, though the British BB takes a torpedo hit and several bomb hits in the process. She gets underway and gets out of the harbor, in the process knocking down two dozen Japanese aircraft. She hooks up with the carriers, and upon learning of the loss of Force Z, is ordered to assist the Americans. Her command takes the idea above of using obsolete destroyers as transports and goes to Wake, assisting the forces there both with her main battery and her AA guns. The Japanese attack fails, and Warspite stays active. Her next task is to join the ABDA fleet in the Dutch East Indies, a decision that changes the ABDA command's fate - the Battle of the Java Sea still happens and while De Ruyter is still lost (along with Admiral Doornan), the arrival of the Warspite rallies the forces, the battleship puts down HIJMS Haguro in response to her sinking the De Ruyter, and the force, now led by Warspite, sees HMAS Perth, HMS Exeter, USS Houston and a handful of destroyers survive by bailing out and running for Fremantle, but not before they had landed a few rounds in on the Japanese. The command wrecked and what little was left havign to be repaired, the ships are ordered to stop the Japanese Force expected to head into the Indian Ocean. All do that, and they make it to the Maldives in time for the Japanese carriers to show up. but unlike OTL, Indomitable, Formidable and Hermes are able to help, and while all six of Japan's carriers get away, Warspite puts down her second Japanese heavy cruiser (ably assisted by Exeter, Cornwall and Houston), and Sommerville's decision to send backup for the RAF's attack against the Japanese fleet proves helpful to their survival. Following the arrival of HMS Dunkerque and HMS Strasbourg, Warspite goes with Houston and the American destroyers back to Pearl Harbor to help with the strike against the Japanese - and to their eventual regret, they don't even fire a shot on the group as they traveled through the East Indies. Following said orders, they join the USN fleet at the battle of Midway, having learned lessons about Japanese capabilities. Warspite's AA guns prove invaluable again as Eastern Island was under attack from the Japanese and adding to her already-considerable kill total. Midway is an American win as IOTL, and with the Americans returning to force with the arrival of USS North Carolina in July.

That done, Warspite heads home via the Panama Canal with Exeter and the destroyers (which kill a U-boat along the way), and both are back in action at the invasion of Sicily. Hit twice by the German Fritz X bombs, the battleship retreats to Algiers, where repairs are made. She's back in the battle, joined for a fourth time by Exeter, which is lost after another Fritz X attack in January 1944. Her support is used to help the Allies fighting their way through Italy.

Back home for repairs, Warspite's guns fire once again on D-Day, and repeated bombardments of Brest, Le Havre and Walcheren follow. Damage from a naval mine hit on the way to Roysth is fairly minor and is repaired, and after the United Kingdom, United States and other armies move well into Germany proper, Warspite is one of the battleships assigned to go back to the United States, anticipating a war against Japan. The RN BBs - King George V, Howe, Rodney, Warspite, Richelieu and Courbet - were refueling in Miami when news of Germany's surrender reached them. The fleet had made it to the Philippines when Japan surrendered, and King George V, Warspite and Richelieu are in Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan, with one Japanese two-star known to have said or Warspite "so this is the old monster that gave us such trouble."

Warspite is sent to re-establish British control over Hong Kong, aiding HMS Swiftsure in the duty, and then sails for home, carrying British, Canadian and American POWs and troops home. That done, Warspite returns to the UK, where she is decommissioned in February 1947. The battleship is made into a museum ship, opening for visitors in Liverpool in 1950.

Longest range hit by a ship's gun

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HMS Warspite - 15in guns - History

The five ships of the Queen Elizabeth class of capitol ships were the first battleships to be armed with 15" guns, and are considered to be the first "fast" battleships, in part due to being the first Royal Navy battleships to have oil-fired boilers instead of coal. These ships were commissioned over the course of 1915-16, and all saw action during World War One, with all but Queen Elizabeth fighting at the Battle of Jutland. These five ships all survived World War One, experienced extensive refits during the inter-war years, and differed greatly in appearance by the start of World War Two.

Sprue C has the ship's boats and launches, anchors, searchlights, vents and more. The boats and launch have some good detail, as do the 3" guns and stowed paravanes.

This sprue has the main turrets and barrels, rudder, props and prop shafts. The turret shapes look ok, but Warspite's turrets did not have bolt heads as molded on these turrets- these should be easy to remove for most modelers.

A 8 page instruction book is included, with typical Trumpeter-style construction steps.

Warspite 1915 is the latest 1/700 Queen Elizabeth class battleship Trumpeter has released. With the observation that the sprues are lettered "A, B, C, K", there is hope for future sister ships spanning even more years of these ships.

Buy ‘Warspite’

“Then we saw the gliders coming over, heard the captain’s broadcast and saw the aircraft doing the V for Victory formation,” Pearson added. “It was fantastic, so much noise. It was awesome. Sadly we saw some of the gliders shot down and falling into the sea. A little while later the bodies of the dead paratroopers and wreckage of the planes floated by. It was a bit upsetting.”

And so the great invasion unfolded, with German counter-fire from shore batteries sometimes coming close enough to scythe Warspite’s upper works with shrapnel, but no real damage was caused.

Albert Cock who had been a telegraphist in Warspite during her Mediterranean battles earlier in the war, was now a chief petty officer serving on a minesweeper nearby. “We were fired upon by shore batteries and also bombed by German and American aircraft,” Cock said.

“We were cutting the mines free and destroying them by gunfire. We hit one mine, which caused us serious damage but didn’t sink us. I knew the Warspite was there but we never made visual contact with her although we could hear the big guns banging away all day.”

Other ex-members of Warspite’s crew were heavily embroiled in fighting ashore. They were Royal Marines who had served aboard her out in the Far East before gaining entry to the commando forces. At least three of them died either during the landings or in the subsequent fighting in the Normandy beachhead.

Late on the evening of D-Day, Warspite pulled back from Sword sector and dropped anchor a few miles offshore. The following day the battleship fired against likely enemy troop, vehicle and gun positions. Enemy bunkers also received attention from her guns. Bit by bit the Nazi grip on Normandy was loosening.

Having fired more than 300 shells in just two days, Warspite’s magazines were exhausted, so she retired across the Channel to Portsmouth to load up with more ammunition.

When she returned on June 9, she was ordered to support the American beaches, especially Omaha where troops were hard pressed. Warspite’s assistance was badly needed as the U.S. Navy’s bombardment vessels, including the battleship USS Arkansas, were running short of shells.

Between 4:12 PM and 6:25 PM, 96 rounds of 15-inch were fired, again without the aid of aircraft spotters or forward observers. Warspite devastated a key enemy artillery position. She was highly praised in a signal from American commanders.

Two days later Warspite was off Gold Beach, where British troops had gone ashore. This time the battleship helped save the 50th Division from a formidable counter-attack by destroying German troops and tanks assembling for the assault in a wood. “Fifty rounds 15-inch rapid fire,” Kelsey commanded.

Midshipman Andy Hamnett’s baptism of fire had been the incredible blast of the Warspite’s own guns on D-Day and since then he had learned to ignore danger.

“Once we reached Normandy I slept on the deck and was fed enormous quantities of pasties, or oggies as they were called,” Hamnett recalled. “As my action station was near a 15-inch gun turret the noise was enormous. My principal task was running messages for the commander [Warspite’s second-in-command], whose name I forget.”

“Another task was to drive one of the ship’s motorboats around the fleet, taking bread from our bakery to the smaller vessels and also landing war correspondents from our ship to Port-en-Bessin. I cannot remember being particularly frightened, but no doubt I took my example from the older men around me.”

Today we can take our example from those elderly veterans, who soldier on despite being frail, with their ranks thinning thanks to the passing of time. They remain determined to pay tribute to comrades and shipmates who gave their lives to save Europe from fascism in 1944.

Warspite was just one of many Allied warships in the massive invasion force. It was a mainly British fleet, working to a plan laid down by Gen. Bernard Montgomery and Adm. Bertram Ramsay under the supreme command of the USA’s Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower.

It is recorded that 156, 115 Allied troops went ashore on D-Day itself, with 83,115 belonging to the British and Canadian forces and 73,000 from the American military.

Armor Penetration with 1,920 lbs. (871 kg) APC Shell

Range Side Armor Deck Armor
8,629 yards (7,980 m) 16.0" (406 mm) ---
14,853 yards (13,582 m) 12.0" (305 mm) ---
19,707 yards (18,020 m) 11.0" (279 mm) ---
23,734 yards (21,702 m) 9.0" (229 mm) ---

This data is from "The Big Gun" and refers to World War I-era armor plate and probably refers to APC of the early World War I period, not the later, improved "Greenboy" projectiles. This table assumes 90 degree inclination, i.e., an angle of obliquity of 0 degrees. It should be noted that APC of this time did not reliably penetrate at even modest angles of obliquity and were subject to premature bursting, so these values should be used with caution.

Range Side Armor Striking Velocity Angle of Obliquity
0 yards (0 m) 18.0" (457 mm) 2,450 fps (869 mps) 0
10,000 yards (9,144 m) 14.0" (356 mm) 1,850 fps (579 mps) 0
10,000 yards (9,144 m) 13.2" (335 mm) 1,850 fps (579 mps) 20
10,000 yards (9,144 m) 12.2" (310 mm) 1,850 fps (579 mps) 30

This data is from "British Battleships of World War Two" for uncapped AP shells against KC Plate armor of World War I and probably refers to armor piercing projectiles of the early World War I period, not the later, improved "Greenboy" projectiles. The first two rows are for a projectile striking a plate at an angle of 0 degrees, i.e., with the axis of the shell perpendicular to the face of the plate. The next two rows are for shells striking at larger angles and show the degradation in penetration performance for the same striking velocity as the angle increases. A capped shell (APC) would show about 10 to 20% improvement at low velocities and about 30 to 50% improvement at high velocities.

HMS Warspite - 15in guns - History

At long last, ship modelers can rejoice there is finally a Queen Elizabeth class battleship available in 1/350 plastic!

HMS Warspite was the second of five Queen Elizabeth class battleships. Warspite was laid down in 1912, and was completed in 1915, and fought at Jutland with 3 of her sisters in 1916. Warspite and her sisters continued to serve long after World War One had ended. Each member received extensive refits in that time, each ship becoming unique in appearance by World War Two Warspite having major refit/reconstruction in 1937, and another refit in the United States, during 1941.

The Queen Elizabeths are armed with 8 15" guns, in four twin turrets mounted fore and aft in an "A-B" "X-Y" configuration. The number of 6" secondary guns, both deck mounted and casemated, changed over the course of the many refits, as did the anti-aircraft fit. These 35,000ton battleships also had 21-inch underwater torpedo tubes as built these too were removed in the inter-war period.

Warspite is in Academy's standard two-part hull, split down the centerline along the keel. The hull halves are detailed with nice portholes with gutters (eyebrows), fairleads, and the correct number of anchor hawseholes. The hull features a waterline option, a scribed line running the length of the hull on the waterline. This will require cutting the hull along this line. There are three bulkhead stiffeners on sprue B for hull reinforcement of the waterline option a design feature seen previously on Academy kits.

There are no raised lines to delineate the waterline on the hull.

The torpedo bulge added in the 1937 refit is nicely detailed, with access hatches, drains and bilge keel. Academy has done a good job recreating the complex shape of the bulge, with the multiple curves fore/aft and on the bottom. The slide mold used for the lower bulge has left a seam, causing a slight marring of the hull. This seam is difficult to feel, and should prove simple to fix (if even necessary).

The bottom of the left side of the hull is slightly warped, but assembly should straighten this out.

Sprue B has the three main deck pieces, the prop shafts, sternwalk, and the interior bulkheads for the two-part hull. There are also some 20mm tubs with relatively thick splinter shields.

The decks do not have bollards molded on rather, each bollard is a separate part on Sprue F. There is basic planking detail, in an alternating pattern of every other plank.

The forecastle piece has a pronounced camber which is more of a slope from a central point than the normal curvature seen. The extreme starboard anchor chainway is missing the deck pipe to the chain locker. The midships piece has the crossdeck seaplane catapult molded on, and is basic in its appearance. The solid shield which runs the border of the twin Mark XIX 4" QF guns is thick in appearance, similar to the 20mm tubs.

Sprue C is mostly concerned with the amidships and after superstructure areas of the 01 level and above. That said, there are also some pre-formed plastic anchor chains here. These are interesting, and will look much better than molded on chains.

The sprue is mostly concerned with the forward superstructure, including the distinctive armored tower bridge of the refit Queen Elizabeths. The parts that make up the tower bridge have beveled inside corners to aid in assembly, but there is no other internal structure alignment could be an issue.

The bridge levels have the wind deflectors molded on, and look good. The upper level has some molded-in stairs leading down, which will be too thick to some eyes. There are more 20mm tubs the shields continue to be thick.

The main battery director looks ok, but the Type 284 radars are very simplified.

This large sprue has a variety of parts and assemblies on it for use in many areas of Warspite. This includes the 3-part pedestals for the display, the ship's propellers and rudder, the seaplane crane, as well as the casemate SP 6"/45 Mark XII guns, the twin Mark XIX mounts, and the star attractions the twin 15" main guns of this battleship.

The boom of the crane is slide- molded as a solid part, with the gantry being a two-piece affair elsewhere on this same sprue. The boom has raised detail for the individual lattices, but does not deter from the fact this is a large, solid, piece of plastic. Academy choosing to include a photoetched alternative to this part was most likely a good decision.

Each Sprue E has 2 props and one rudder, bringing the total included to the proper 4 and 2. The props do not appear to have the correct blade shape or pitch. The rudder is close in correct appearance, being a bit off in the curvature of the lower half.

The casemates look good, with the rubber barrel bloomers molded in place. The vision ports for the pointer and layer are indicated with indentations to the front of the casement, but are not over done. The 6" barrels have open muzzles, and look to have a good shape. These barrels include the counterweights added to help aid in handling.

The Mark XIX mounts are in two pieces, a base and gunshield. The gunshield is plain, with other a faint outline around the vision ports. The base does have simplified fuse setters to each side, one for each gun.

There are two styles of 15" turret included one styles for turrets "A" and "Y", and one for "B" and "X". The turret shapes look well done, and have the overlapping plate armor expected on this turrets. The rangefinders are molded separately. There is no rivet detail anywhere on these turrets, and the molded on ladders are too far toward the back. The bottom of each turret is keyed, so the mains will be re-positionable after assembly. The 20mm tubs are molded separately, and have the same thick walls as seen on D. The rangefinder hoods for these turrets are missing some slight details, and the 30' rangefinders for "B" and "X" turrets are too thin.

F is the final sprue of Warspite, and also has a large variety fittings and items upon it. These fittings very from nicely detailed to fairly plain, with most being acceptable in appearance. The paravanes are very nice, some of the nicest ones in plastic, as are the 20mm Oerlikons. The 8-barrel pom-poms are good, but the barrels look a bit proud and brutish. The underside of the base has some ejector pin marks, but these should be mostly invisible. There are also the many individual bollards and bitts to be placed in pairs around the decks parts on this sprue, as well as the various capstans and windlasses.

The HCAS are acceptable, and the Type 285 Yagi antennas are solid triangles, par for the course, for being molded in plastic. The twin QF 4" Mk XVI guns have a good shape, and the breech and breech block look good.

The ship's boats are inconsistent the 45' fast motor boat and motor launches are pretty good, with the fast motor boat missing a few windows. Both of the 45' hulls have strakes and keels. The 35' motor boat, however, is marred by sink marks on both the hull and deck parts.

The instructions consist of a single sheet with multiple folds a single page of info and 7 pages of instructions. This is no text the instructions rely on solely on graphics and pictographs- which should not be an issue for most modelers. As always, read through the directions, and each step, before construction. Academy has opted not to include large, overscale plastic railings, as they had with previous ship offerings.

There is an additional sheet with a sprue listing and painting instructions. Academy has 12 different paint types referenced, but not all colors have a recommended match. The directions for the flag decal placement are misleading all those flags would not be flying at the same time.

There are large numbers of unused parts listed, but these appear to be mainly extra parts left over from the doubling of included sprues.

Academy has beaten the competition in releasing Warspite in September. Trumpeter has announced a 1/350 Queen Elizabeth, but being first to market is a great advantage, as well as having an MSRP of $69.00. Academy's economic alternative, while not quite hitting the cutting edge of detail availble with current technology and research, doesn't seem to have any serious issues. Overall, it's a good kit. While not without its flaws, most of which can easily be forgiven by this kit's great price. These flaws will mainly be of concern to the higher end, detail-fixated modelers the regular builder will be able to buy this model and really enjoy both the build and the finished product- it will look like an HMS Warspite when finished. To wit- this kit should prove to be just fine for most of the modelling public, and a gem in the rough for the aftermarket crowd.

HMS Warspite

HMS WARSPITE at Prussia Cove with the Penlee Lifeboat on 23 April 1947

Launched during March 1915 as part of the Royal Navy`s `Queen Elizabeth` Class of warship, HMS WARSPITE survived both World Wars only to end her distinguished career as a rusting hulk alongside St. Michael`s Mount.

Warspite saw action at the Battle of Jutland during W.W.I and played an important role in every theatre of operations during W.W.II.

After almost 30 years of service she was decommissioned and consigned to the breakers yard for scrap metal.

Before being towed from Portsmouth much of her equipment and armament was removed. On 19th April 1947 she began her final journey under tow from the tugs MELINDA III and BUSTLER along the south coast destined for the Clyde. However, on 21st April she ran right into a South Westerly gale and the Bustler towing cable parted in heavy seas south of the Wolf Rock Lighthouse.

For almost a whole day Warspite and the tugs fought the storm but eventually they drifted deeper into Mount`s Bay.

Photograph courtesy of Kathryn Atkin

Mid-day on 23 April saw the Melinda III abandoning her tow and the Warspite`s skeleton crew were immediately forced to drop anchor. However, not surprisingly with 30ft waves crashing down onto the stricken warship, it failed to hold and she was driven ashore at low water onto the Mount Mopus Ledge, just a mile S.W. of Cudden Point.

As high tide approached she floated clear of the reef and soon came ashore at Prussia Cove.

Amazingly, the gale did more damage to the Warspite in 48 hours than she had previously suffered in two World Wars. At this point it was decided that she could no longer be towed to the Clyde and that it would be acceptable to `cut her up` where she lay. However, for ease of access she was eventually moved the short distance to the beach alongside St. Michael`s Mount.

Here she lay for 5 years slowly being taken apart piece by piece for scrap metal.

1915 – 1945

Displacement: 29,700 Speed: 23.0 knots Compliment: 950 and up to 1,220 in 1918

Armament: Eight 15-inch guns in pairs and fourteen 6 -inch guns. Two 3 inch Anti Aircraft Guns in 1917, two 4-inch anti aircraft guns.

Bismarck vs. HMS Warspite + HMS Exeter

Post by miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:59 pm

i wondered wat would have happened if the Bismarck would have met the HMS Warpite and the HMS Exceter.
If we would say the Exceter would have hit her in the boiler room or so and so that Bsiamcrk can't run for it,
how would the battle end?
Lets say that the Bismarck still manages 28kn.

Post by marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:20 pm

Post by miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:29 pm

but wat about if Exceter comes in torpedo range and so the Bismarck has to give ehr some notice and shoot at her as well, and then the Warspite closes up and with her 8x15in guns hits Bismarck!

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:40 pm

The Bismarck, even with the hypothetical damage would always win. Just see the Graf Spee and what she did on Exeter with her 11" guns. Now, Bismarck with her 15" L/47 and top of the art (1941) technology. No way, Bismarck would had walked calm and free.

Post by miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:47 pm

you guys forget the WARPITE.
wat could she do to the Bismarck with her 15in guns?

Post by marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 pm

Post by miro777 » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:32 pm

hmmmm yes ur arguments seem reasonable
so the Bismarck could finish off two RN ships

now wat if we increase the British side by another BB.
Lets again take an old one.

The Queen Elizabeth + Warspite + Exceter
Bismarck alone

Post by Bgile » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:45 pm

I think that if Bismarck accepted combat with Warspite she could lose. Bismarck has a big advantage, but one lucky hit .

The two ships have similar main armament and Warspite, who's guns are more powerful than PoW's, can definitely hurt Bismarck. Bismarck's speed is only important in deciding whether she accepts combat or not - it doesn't give an advantage once the battle begins.

Post by marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Post by Bgile » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:47 pm

Just what favorable position are you referring to? If one ship can shoot at the other then the reverse is true also. It's hard to imagine how one would define a favorable postion in this situation.

At Jutland Warspite was fired on by a number of German ships at once and she held up quite well, thank you very much! It was a demonstration of the marked superiority of that ship and her firepower over the German contemporaries. IIRC her main battery remained intact thoughout, as did her powerplant. Wasn't the damage mainly superficial and didn't really effect her fighting ability?

I don't want to imply this would be a fight between equals, but I also don't want people to think that Warspite was some defenseless relic. IIRC she hit a modern Italian BB at 25kyds range in the Med. Ask them if she was ineffective!

Post by marcelo_malara » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:02 pm

Post by Bgile » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:45 am

I can't imagine how, barring absolute incompetance on the part of her enemy. All the British have to do is maneuver independently and turn when necessary to keep all guns on the target. Bismarck's speed isn't going to help much at all.

Sorry - you have the better of me wrt Jutland. I didn't remember that she was that heavily damaged. However, if Bismarck had received that kind of a pummeling she would have been heavily damaged also.

Please - I'm not implying they are in any way equal. Just that it might not be as one-sided as you imply. I might even go so far as to argue that USS Tennessee, with her more powerful 14" battery might have done better than PoW, especially after her post-Pearl Harbor reconstruction.

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:35 pm

Re: Bismarck vs. HMS Warspite + HMS Exeter

Post by RF » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:48 am

miro777 wrote: hey
i wondered wat would have happened if the Bismarck would have met the HMS Warpite and the HMS Exeter.

I can understand your choice of Warspite as her main armament is so similar to Bismarck, but why pick Exeter as your cruiser? If your intention was a heavy cruiser there are better choices that could be made.

Post by miro777 » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:39 pm

i actually don't know why i chose the Exceter.
it was a long time ago, i posted that.
the reason may have been, that the Bismarck could not have run away, but im not sure why exactly Exceter.

1/350 15" MKI* HMS Warspite Guns 1942 x4

1/350 Scale 15 Inch MKI* (* standing for modified version) HMS Warspite Guns x4 as modified pre WW2. This modification allowed the Guns to elevate to 30º from the previous maximum of 20º, with the addition of cutouts and 'Eyebrows' on the turret roof. This set is specifically for HMS Warspite as seen in 1942 with 2 AA Mounts and 2 Ammo Lockers on B and X Turret roofs. These are incredibly highly detailed parts modelled from the plans in the Norman Ough book as well as many photographs to make these the most accurate and detailed MKI turrets available. These parts are NOT lifted from computer game models like some other Shop Owners parts. Check to see which sellers show separate renders of their items not just the Shapeways default render. Available in most other common scales and for specific ships and time periods.

  • 4x Mountings with 8 separate barrels and can be angles as desired
  • accurate rivet and hex nut placement
  • AA Mounts for B and X Turret
  • 15ft rangefinder in A and Y Turret, 30ft Rangefinder in B and X Turret
  • open rangefinder hatches,Blast bag hood fasteners, accurate venting and access hatches
  • correct Turret face geometry with splash guard on bottom of A and Y Turret
  • NOTE: this set is for HMS Warspite 1942 only

By the mid-1930s the Admiralty saw these guns as growing obsolete, as other nations had developed more powerful weapons, capable of longer ranges and firing heavier projectiles. Along with this, the ships carrying these guns were approaching twenty years of service and starting to show signs of wearing out. Inhibited by treaty restrictions from replacing the battleships, the British instead sought to rectify the situation by initiating a "modernization" program whereby the ships had major overhauls performed and had their weapons upgraded. There were two significant improvements made to these guns during the modernizations: 1) The upper elevation limit of the mountings was increased from 20 degrees up to 30 degrees, which raised their maximum range with 4crh projectiles from 23,700 yards up to 29,000 yards (21,670 m to 26,520 m), and 2) The projectiles were redesigned to add a more streamlined ballistic cap (6crh), which increased the range still further to about 32,000 yards (29,260 m) at 30 degrees elevation. Thanks to these modifications, in July 1940 HMS Warspite made one of the longest hits ever scored by a naval gun on an enemy ship when she struck the Italian battleship Guilio Cesare at approximately 26,000 yards (23,770 m).

The rate at which these ships could be modernized was limited and by the start of World War II Malaya, Barham, Repulse and the five Royal Sovereign class battleships had not yet been upgraded. Royal Oak, Barham and Repulse were sunk early in the war, but the remaining unmodernized ships were given a "Super Charge" which consisted of the largest possible propellant charge that the guns and mountings could safely handle. These were issued starting in late 1941 and at the maximum elevation of 20 degrees allowed a range of 28,700 yards (26,240 m). However, from a study of the records, it would appear that no ship ever fired a shot using Super Charges, although they were used by the coastal artillery at Dover. Super Charges were not issued to ships with 30 degree mountings as the increased barrel wear and mounting stress was not considered to be acceptable. For this reason, sources which quote HMS Vanguard as having gun ranges in excess of 32,000 yards (29,260 m) are somewhat misleading, as such a range would have required the use of super charges, which she never carried.

In addition to the ship-board guns, there were also four guns (one source says five) used as coastal artillery at Singapore and a further two mounted at Wanstone near Dover.

Constructed of tapered inner A tube, A tube, full-length multi-start wire, B tube, overlapping jacket and breech ring. Used a Welin breech operated by hydraulic Vickers "pure-coupled" mechanism. A total of 186 guns, including two prototypes, and 58 turrets were manufactured between 1912 and 1918.

The second prototype gun, E597, was to a considerably different construction, having a full-length jacket, no B tube and an Elswick three-motion short arm breech mechanism which considerably reduced "slam." This gun suffered a failed A tube during proof testing. Had this gun not failed, the Elswick breech mechanism probably would have been used on all production guns.

Note: It is often asked if the British ever planned to use these guns for the King George V battleships of World War II. The answer is that they did not, but there was some investigation into using a new design, the "all steel" 15"/45 (38.1 cm) Mark II gun.

Cleaning Information
Some part cleanup will be necessary. The 3D printing process uses a waxy substance to support certain part features during the printing process. Although the parts are cleaned by Shapeways, some waxy residue may remain. It can be safely removed with water and a mild aqueous detergent like "Simple Green" using an old, soft toothbrush, Q-tips or pipe cleaners. During the printing process, liquid resin is cured by ultraviolet light. Microscopic bits of resin may remain uncured.

Let your parts sit in direct sunlight for a few hours to fully cure the resin.
Water-based acrylic paints meant for plastics is strongly recommended. Other paints, especially enamels, may not cure on Frosted Detail 3D-printed plastics.
Use dedicated model sprue cutters to remove parts to minimise the risk of damage to parts.
Please take a look at my other items.

Watch the video: HMS Warspite Tribut (June 2022).


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